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FREE: Baseball Trading card over 100 years old Allen & Ginter

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Description

The listing, Baseball Trading card over 100 years old Allen & Ginter has ended.

I don't know much about this card. I believe this card to be part of the 1889 N29 Allen & Ginter World's Champions Series but I cannot confirm that. When I compare them to pictures of the cards from this series found on the internet this card looks almost identical except it doesn't have the words "Richmond Virginia" on the bottom of the back. The size of this card is approximately 1 5/8" x 2 3/4" and it is not in mint condition as you can see by the pictures. Although for being over a century old, it is in great shape. Please bid accordingly. If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to contact me before bidding.

Questions & Comments

George C. Miller (1853–1929) Found very little on him except he was with Pittsburgh (AA) and briefly with the reds

Jan 11th, 2012 at 2:43:55 PM PST by

Thanks for the info. I have never heard of him but then again I am not a huge baseball fan. Not to mention the fact that this guy was way before my time.

Jan 11th, 2012 at 4:36:04 PM PST by

Actually the card says George F Miller. Not George C Miller. I found this card on the Library of Congress website that says this is George F. "Doggie" Miller
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2007680731/

Jan 11th, 2012 at 9:52:02 PM PST by

nice card, bid and fanned

Jan 15th, 2012 at 7:31:57 PM PST by

Thank you! Fanned you back.

Jan 15th, 2012 at 7:58:20 PM PST by

ok you got this from a family member that passed away may i ask how old and do you know if they collected sorry for asking just want to make a decision.and your answer will do it thank you

Jan 19th, 2012 at 3:35:07 PM PST by

hi very awesome card i have several of the 1909 and a couple of these fanned watching and will be bidding i want to add this to my collection something i can give to my grand kids glad to see such a beauty!!1

Jan 16th, 2012 at 11:26:34 AM PST by

Thanks crdman49! Good luck.

Jan 16th, 2012 at 5:56:54 PM PST by

Could the size be 1 1/2" rather than 1 5/8"? Dean Cards indicates that a reprint was made in that larger size and that the original N29 set was 1 1/2"

Jan 16th, 2012 at 4:02:35 PM PST by

The size is definitely 1 5/8" wide. I have also read these cards are usually 1 1/2". I mentioned this in one of my earlier posts. I am not aware of any reprints but i will research it soon as i have a chance and post my findings here. If this card is a reprint it is not a recent reprint. I don't think there is any denying this card is very old. I don't want anyone to think I am trying to pull a scam here. I have no way of verifying the age or authenticity of this card. The best I can do is post the best quality pictures and scans that I can and answer any questions that I can. Please, if you think this card is fake, do not bid.

Jan 16th, 2012 at 6:07:13 PM PST by

Pollicoll, I have found the Deans Cards site you refer to with the reprints. It is listed here:
https://www.deanscards.com/Product/1888-Allen-and-Ginter-N29-Reprint/1071958/--4-George-F---Doggie--Miller---1888-Allen-and-Ginter-N29-REPRINT.aspx

I used their "contact us" form and asked them what year this reprint was made. The picture they show on their site, although a stock image, is clearly of a newer card.

The only other info about reprints of this series I could find was that a company called Dover reprinted this series, supposedly in the late seventies. I cannot find any pictures on line of these "Dover reprints" but they are supposed to have the name "Dover" on the back of the card.

Jan 16th, 2012 at 9:25:01 PM PST by

When, or if, Deanscards.com responds to me I will post the response here. I also asked them if it would be possible to send me a picture of the front and back of the reprint card they are selling.

Jan 16th, 2012 at 9:26:36 PM PST by

If anyone else has any input as to the origin of this card please post your comments here. When I put this card up for auction I just thought I had a really cool card that someone would be willing to bid a lot of credits for. Now I'm almost freaking obsessed about learning this cards history. My brain's starting to hurt. :)

Jan 16th, 2012 at 9:32:58 PM PST by

I don't mean to be a downer but this does not appear to be the original. The writing on the back does not match the original card and is missing the writing under Allen & Ginter that says Richmond Virginia

Jan 16th, 2012 at 9:42:36 PM PST by

I have to disagree. Compare mine to this picture from the library of congress:
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/bbc.0553b/
The writing matches exactly. It's just that a lot of the ink from mine is worn off. Also, I agree that mine is missing the words "Richmond Virginia" but I believe my card was once glued into the A17 book produced back then by Allen & Ginter for collectors of these cards. They actually encouraged collectors to glue these cards into that book. I think the words "Richmond Virginia" were once on this card but they were "peeled" off when the card was removed from the book. If you look closely at the back of my card it looks like it was glued on the top, bottom and right side. I mention this in one of my earlier auction comments.

Jan 17th, 2012 at 6:03:44 AM PST by

Here you go my friend i hope this helps you out and everyone bidding i have a few of these cards!! and this is from a very trusted source.Enter Your Card or Collectible

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george miller 1889 N29 Allen
Our price
$1,422.06 Low Confidence
This means that the price of your item varies a lot among the items we analyzed. Some items naturally vary a great deal in price, but you should check the Items section below to make sure that only the items you want are factored into this price. Many times reprints or replicas of items will throw the results off.

Advanced Data (click to show)
Average Price: $1,580.06 Standard Deviation: 2214.55
Minimum Price: $14.14 Normalized Standard Deviation: -0.40
Maximum Price: $3,145.99 Sample Size: 2

Items (click to show)

Jan 16th, 2012 at 10:44:58 PM PST by

Thank you

Jan 18th, 2012 at 4:54:19 PM PST by

george miller 1889 N29 Allen
Our price
$1,422.06 Low Confidence
This means that the price of your item varies a lot among the items we analyzed. Some items naturally vary a great deal in price, but you should check the Items section below to make sure that only the items you want are factored into this price. Many times reprints or replicas of items will throw the results off.

Jan 16th, 2012 at 10:47:31 PM PST by

Thank you

Jan 18th, 2012 at 4:54:13 PM PST by

1889 N43 Allen & Ginter "The Worlds Champions-Second Series" Complete Set (50) - #1 on the SGC Set Registry! This is the #1 set on the SGC Set Registry with a GPA of 58.0. Allen & Ginter took the standard size tobacco insert cards to a whole new and elaborately illustrated level with these larger-sized cards that came inside boxes of processed smoking products. A century later, they are among the more hotly pursued editions from this era. Few sets are more prized than the N43 World's Champions-Second Series which gets its line up from the N29 series. Offered are all fifty subjects including the coveted half-dozen Baseball subjects topped by HoFer Buck Ewing. As one can imagine the completion of this set is by no means an easy task. Upon completion, the ability to profess a grade average just under the "Excellent" level is nothing short of impressive. Includes: Graded - SGC 80 EX/NM 6: 13 cards, Albert, Capt. Boyton, Carter, Crist, Capt. Daly, Duffy, Fitzgerald, Hill, Lange, O'Connor, Page, Queckberner, Sears; SGC 70 EX+ 5.5: 5 cards, East, Edwards, Geo. Miller-Baseball, Pettitt, Temple; SGC 60 EX 5: 12 cards, Bauer, Bibby, Ford, George, Getzin-Baseball, Harradon, Havlin, Ives, Murphy, Myers, Ray, Ross; SGC 50 VG/EX 4: 10 cards, Barry, Clarke, Cummings, Dwight, Ewing-Baseball, Kerrigan, McCormack, Paulsen, Stone, Wood; SGC 40 VG 3: 4 cards, LaBlanche, Morrell-Baseball, Rowe, Slocum Jr.; SGC 30 GD 2: 2 cards, Crocker and Webb; SGC 20 FR 1.5: 3 cards, McGee, Murphy, Ryan-Baseball; SGC 10 PR 1: 1 card, Fogarty-Baseball. Grade: 0, Service: SGC, Service No.: 2214220

Jan 16th, 2012 at 11:01:41 PM PST by

Thanks crdman49! I have seen you around here on Listia and from some of your auctions and comments, I believe you know a thing or two about baseball cards. Besides, with a name like cardman how can you not? :) By the way, your 1909 T206 Doyle card auction is what inspired me to put my card up. I thought that was an incredible piece of history and I hope you got a lot of credits for it. I knew it was gonna end up out of my league.

Jan 17th, 2012 at 6:15:02 AM PST by

Deans Cards.com responded to me this morning. I will copy and paste their response. They think the reprints were produced in the nineties. My card is definitely older then 1990. If my card is a reprint, I believe it was reprinted within a couple of years of the original. Here is the response from deanscards:

Dean's Cards Orders orders@deanscards.com

7:43 AM (2 hours ago)

to me

Hi John,

Below is a link to what the backs of the cards look like. I think they were reprinted in the 90's.

http://blog.deanscards.com/2011/01/1888-89-allen-ginter-n28-and-n29.html

Jan 17th, 2012 at 8:18:49 AM PST by

Great Card F & W

Jan 18th, 2012 at 4:13:27 PM PST by

Thanks, fanned you back!

Jan 18th, 2012 at 4:53:58 PM PST by

hello my friend i have been doing alot of research found out that the reprint cards are 15/8x23/4 and thats a fact

Jan 19th, 2012 at 2:41:19 PM PST by

I'm with you on that crdman49. All the research I have done says the originals are 1 1/2" wide and the reprints are 1 5/8" wide. But my card clearly doesn't resemble any of the reprints I have seen and it also appears to be a heck of a lot older then any reprints I have seen. Here is what I do know, Allen & Ginter produced these cards for two reasons:
1. They were inserted into cigarette packs and acted as stiffeners so the cigarettes didn't get crushed.
2. They were used as an incentive for people to buy more cigarettes.

They were not in the business of producing trading cards and were not were probably not concerned with standardizing the size nor were they held to the same quality standards that modern card manufacturers are held to. I think it is highly likely that card sizes and print color quality varied slightly among card runs.

Jan 19th, 2012 at 3:14:42 PM PST by

what is the other card you have email me if you want i would love to know i could do the gin on this one i just wich i new for sure only way is to send it into beckett vintage gradeing

Jan 19th, 2012 at 2:46:13 PM PST by

The other card I have is a Charles Comiskey from the first series. After all the hoopla about this one in this auction I have been considering sending it in for grading myself. I have never sent a card in for grading so I am not sure where to start or which is the best grading company.

Jan 19th, 2012 at 3:18:32 PM PST by

But every reprint card i have found has square corners!!! their is no reprints with rounded corners!1

Jan 19th, 2012 at 2:51:55 PM PST by

I agree. I have never seen a reprint with rounded corners either. I suppose the corners on my card could be roundeddue to wear but the rounds are too consistent. I truly believe this card is an original but I am not making that claim because I just can't prove it.

Jan 19th, 2012 at 3:20:32 PM PST by

beckett vintage is the most sought after graded card out and the most respected

Jan 19th, 2012 at 3:20:40 PM PST by

how much do you think of a re sell vaule dose this card hold 100.00?

Jan 14th, 2012 at 12:30:37 PM PST by

That's a very good question and to be honest I don't know. In mint condition I would guess it would be in the 3 figure, maybe even 4 figure range if you find the right buyer but this card is not in mint condition. If I had to rate it on a scale of 1 to 10 I would give it a 6 or a 7. All in all, in my opinion, it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, or in this case, how many credits someone is willing to bid for it.

Jan 14th, 2012 at 12:57:08 PM PST by

I found the following info about George F. "Doggie" Miller at this link:
http://milehighcardco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=19052

"Not to be confused with the George Miller who played for the Cincinnati Redstockings in 1887 and 1884, this is George F. "Doggie" Miller, catcher for the Pittsburgh Alleghenys at the time this N29 Allen & Ginter World's Champions tobacco card was produced. "Doggie" also appeared for the Pittsburgh Pirates, St. Louis Browns and Louisville Colonels, racking up 1381 hits, 33 home runs and 567 RBI over a 13-year career."

Jan 11th, 2012 at 9:55:54 PM PST by

I also found this link that describes this series of cards:
http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/original-allen-ginter-baseball-sets-changed-collecting/
This link claims the size of the cards in this series is 1 1/2 inches wide. My card is 1 5/8 inches wide. Only 1/8 of an inch difference but I think it is important potential bidders are aware of this. This is the main reason I cannot confirm that this card was part of that series. I can say it is definitely old and a very nice piece of American history.

Jan 11th, 2012 at 10:05:34 PM PST by

Another thing I would like to point out, Allen & Ginter produced a book back then for collectors of this series and they actually recommended collectors glue their cards into this book for safekeeping. If you look at the back of my card it does appear it may have been glued into one of these books at one point in time. My suspicion is that when this card was pulled off of the book it removed the words "Richmond Virginia" from the bottom.

Jan 11th, 2012 at 10:11:46 PM PST by

its an 1888 card and its a beautiful piece

Jan 12th, 2012 at 3:20:07 PM PST by

Thank you! Although it is not in mint condition I agree, it is a beautiful piece, especially for being 124 years old!

Jan 12th, 2012 at 7:54:16 PM PST by

im curious as to where u got it

Jan 12th, 2012 at 7:57:55 PM PST by

It belonged to a relative that passed away. I also have another card from the same era. If this one does well I will put that one up for auction here too. If not I will just keep it as it is a pretty nice addition to my card collection.

Jan 12th, 2012 at 8:37:53 PM PST by

I just wanna say thats a Awesome Card you got there wish I had the funds to get it now I would love to have that thing just to show off

Jan 12th, 2012 at 9:45:19 PM PST by

Thank you, I appreciate it. I think it is a pretty cool card myself but I don't actually collect tobacco cards. I collect non-sports cards so I'm hoping this will go to someone who truly appreciates it and will keep it in good shape for another 100 years.

Jan 13th, 2012 at 5:16:36 AM PST by

Sorry the link I used sent me to the wrong player.

Jan 13th, 2012 at 10:50:14 AM PST by

No problem Leon14. I am actually glad you posted that. It prompted me to dig a lot deeper and find out more about the card.

Jan 13th, 2012 at 2:22:16 PM PST by

fanned and watching
fan me please?
thanks!

Jan 13th, 2012 at 7:57:07 PM PST by

Fanned you back. Thanks!

Jan 14th, 2012 at 12:10:32 AM PST by

Very nice card fanned and watching hope fan back.

Jan 15th, 2012 at 4:48:10 PM PST by

thanks. I am already a fan of yours!

Jan 15th, 2012 at 4:57:37 PM PST by

To clarify my reply to Raymond8, I do not know how much this card is worth. I dont collect tobacco cards. Although I would prefer this card goes to a bidder who wants to preserve it and keep it in his/her collection, I cant stop someone from winning it just to resell it and have it bounce around the collectors market. If you are looking to win this just to resell it, please do your homework and determine the value yourself. I have given as much detail on this card as I can and I am more then willing to answer any questions I can.

Jan 14th, 2012 at 1:21:50 PM PST by

1.5 million dollars!!! And you give it away. WoW!!! You are nice....

Jan 14th, 2012 at 7:01:28 PM PST by

Ha! I doubt it's worth that much.

Jan 14th, 2012 at 11:14:31 PM PST by

Baseball Trading card over 100 years old Allen & Ginter is in the Collectibles | Trading Cards | Sports Trading Cards category